Rev. Dorothy McRae-McMahon

Dorothy McRae-McMahon was born in Zeehan, Tasmania but has lived more than half her life in Sydney. She has four children and one grandchild.

She has worked as a Pre-school teacher, as staff member of the NSW Ecumenical Council, as a Parish Minister with the Pitt Street Uniting Church in central Sydney and as a member of the national staff of the Uniting Church.

She is now retired and engaged in writing her eighth book (“Rituals for life, love and loss”), helping to produce the only local paper in South Sydney, speaking, broadcasting and working for social change. 

Community Awards:

Jubilee Medal from Queen for work with women in NSW (1977)

Australian Government Peace Award (1986)

The Australian Human Rights Medal (1988)

Hon Doctorate of Letters from Macquarie University for work with minorities and her contribution to the spiritual life of the community (1992)

Interview with Rev. Dorothy McRae-McMahon

Do you see yourself as a leader? What is your vision?

I see myself as someone who has been invited on some occasions to lead in the church and the community and I am honoured by those occasions. I see myself as one who is always called to take responsibility for what I see and believe and therefore to lead in faith, even if it is only in a personal conversation or a letter to an editor. I believe that this is the Christian task, but always to be taken in humility and with due consultation with others. I  know I will make many mistakes as I do this, this I make my regular confession to my God and my peers.

My vision is to be part of the transformation of the world into a place where people love their neighbours as themselves and stand in humble faith before a God who is never captured by our naming or imagining but who is the centre and source of all that is.

What attracted you to a life in the Church?

I was born into a Methodist parsonage and have always seen the church as my family and culture.

You have said, "If I have not been fully open before it's because I don't  want to be defined by my sexuality. I don't want to be known as the lesbian  liturgist. My life is liturgy, worship, commitment to stand for the  marginalised, my passion for this country to find its way into compassion  and kindness. I also read detective stories. Being lesbian is who I am, and makes me whole. But it is not all that I am." Since declaring your  homosexuality, have you found such acknowledgement and acceptance amongst people at large? How do you contend with those who discriminate against you?

I have found very wide acceptance in the community at large and a little less than that in the church. If people are phobic, I know that dialogue with them is impossible and I simply commit our relationship to God and pray for another day to dawn. Here and there, if consistent with the protocols of the church, I say "Thus far and no further" and use the procedures of the church to challenge them. If people simply disagree, I enter into respectful dialogue with them whenever possible. I find that much of the middle ground of the church longs to find a way through to acceptance but lacks the Biblical scholarship to do so.

Much of the time I simply live my life and take little notice.

Why do you believe the Uniting Church Assembly opposed your leadership and how did its decision affect you and your esteem of the Uniting Church?

The Uniting Church Assembly did not oppose my leadership - indeed it gave me a standing ovation at the time of the Perth Assembly. I voluntarily handed in my resignation because I did not want to live my working life trying to defend myself to a minority of the church membership, nor to make my colleagues do that. I was also concerned that my presence might put in jeopardy other causes which I valued and which were under my jurisdiction  as National Director for Mission. In fact the church at that time affirmed to the World Council of Churches that I was in good standing and worthy to continue to be the Moderator of the WCC Worship Committee - a position of world status and standing.

Nevertheless, it was painful for me to resign and I was wounded by the need to do so. Having said that, I know and love the church like family and I knew what was happening and why and that we are all on a tough journey towards the truth.

In retrospect would you say that revealing to your husband, children and the Assembly that you were gay, was the most difficult decision you ever had to make?

Revealing to my husband and children that I was a lesbian, which I did in 1987, was the hardest thing I ever did, because I knew they would grieve the ending of a marriage. However, they all coped with that and are still my friends and close family.

Revealing that to the Assembly in 1997 was very very hard but I have never regretted it for one moment. 

You have said, "I am a person who was never physically attracted to boys or  men but I am of a generation where there was no name for that. I spent 32  years in marriage with a man and had four children. I do not regret that."  

"I deeply respect the man I married and I am very glad I had four children because I probably wouldn't have done that if I had known who I was. At the point of my ordination at 48 years old, if I had been asked about my sexual orientation, which I was not, I would have said I was a heterosexual, in spite of the problems I had experienced throughout my life." 

I was 51 when I finally recognised who I was at last. I had had some idea before but when I was suddenly physically and spiritually attracted to a particular woman it became clear at that point. I was able to look back and see that this had been my orientation all along, except I had never been at the right place in my life to acknowledge it." "It was a very natural feeling, the most natural feeling I have ever had - it was like finding my own tribe, finding my own people."

Having recognised your sexuality in 1951 what issues did you need to resolve before wanting to acknowledge it publicly in 1963? 

I did not acknowledge my sexuality publicly (ie media publicly) until 1997. I only really recognised my sexuality in 1987 when I ended my marriage. It is only in hindsight that I knew I had always been a lesbian in orientation. 

There were many issues to be resolved - self awareness, which I did not have in my early days, a language for discussing things and trustworthy people to talk to, preparing for the pain in facing the truth and what that would mean, preparing the courage to face the publicity and to pay the price in my working life and relationships.

You expressed the view in the 1998 Constitutional Convention that, "our  present Constitution gives us no vision for our country, no ideals or values  which we might want to uphold, and no naming of freedoms or the nature of our democracy other than a complex description of our governmental system  at Federation. It could never be used as an inspiration to our children or to new immigrants" and that the new national Constitution could include 

(a) a preamble honouring the original owners of this land and the multicultural nature of our present society; (b) a recodifying of the role of the  Head-of-State; and (c) a Bill of Rights." 

What do you perceive to be the difficulties in reaching agreement for a new Constitution and do you see this as happening in the next five years?

I think the Constitution needs to be rewritten rather than facing people with hundreds of complex amendments. This will take more Constitutional Conventions and lots of community commitment and discussion. It will also only take place if the Prime Minister of the day is in favour in my view. I can't imagine this process being completed in 5 years, even if there is a change of government.

In your book, Daring Leadership for the 21st Century, you advocate that  leadership needs to be an engagement based on trust and honour between  leaders and followers working together to achieve collective and shared  goals for the common good and that "our decision about whom we decide to follow, will ultimately determine the evolution of the human race and the  life of our planet." Can you indicate who or what organisations,  governments etc have impressed you in their pursuit and commitment to such leadership?

I think some of the Scandinavian Governments could teach us a thing or two. Canada is worth a look too. I think the best work in terms of organisations often comes from loose networks of people - for eg the 1970's Peace Movement and the Women's Movement. Groups like the Quakers impress me with what they achieve through a small respectful group.

What do you regard as being the qualities of a good leader?

Honesty, openness to criticism, encouragement of a deep and critical examination of issues, passion and imagination, sense of humour, courage, a real love for all sorts of people and a respect for them. 

What are you most concerned about in relation to issues affecting women in  the 21st Century?

Violence and abuse within the home and community 

Resistance to a shift in male-style decision making and culture in government and corporate life

A back lash in education and life in general as though girls and women are taking over instead of looking closely at the self-destructive aspects of male culture.

At the DIAKONIA World Assembly - 2001 in Brisbane you defined faith as  "believing that the world can be transformed into the dwelling place of God.  This is the mission of Jesus Christ." You spoke of worship and the Eucharist as a place of renewal, the place where we take our brokenness and claim the "gift of wholeness in Jesus Christ. It is here that we announce that, in the face of all our vulnerability, failure and lack of faith, we are the church, the people to whom grace is given. It is here that we remember that we are part of the Body of Christ and never meant to live alone, that when our faith runs low someone else will bear us up with the strength of their faith. It is here that we remind ourselves that our struggling journeys are significant and held precious by God." 

What are your thoughts on how the Church is engaging with its followers in the context of increasing international problems, inequities and injustices? How is it reaching out towards those whom you once described as people "with emploring hands and souls," "with questions and anxieties" "longing for ways of living more fully."

I think the church has largely lost its prophetic voice and courage. I think it has been side-tracked into narrower private morality issues while the world dies and grieves under the weight of massive economic and political forces of oppression. I think it failed dismally to take its stand on asylum seekers and the way we should be taking our place among the wise and compassionate in the world.

There are moments when we do better and begin to cross the boundaries between the church and the struggling in the community. This is where there is no quick fix but steady building of trusting relationships - I see this very faithfully done in some areas like Redfern in Sydney.